May 2008

Beijing Embraces Classical Fascism

by Michael Ledeen

In 2002, I speculated that China may be something we have never seen before: a mature fascist state. Recent events there, especially the mass rage in response to Western criticism, seem to confirm that theory. More significantly, over the intervening six years China’s leaders have consolidated their hold on the organs of control—political, economic and cultural. Instead of gradually embracing pluralism as many expected, China’s corporatist elite has become even more entrenched.

Beijing Embraces FascismEven though they still call themselves communists, and the Communist Party rules the country, classical fascism should be the starting point for our efforts to understand the People’s Republic. Imagine Italy 50 years after the fascist revolution. Mussolini would be dead and buried, the corporate state would be largely intact, the party would be firmly in control, and Italy would be governed by professional politicians, part of a corrupt elite, rather than the true believers who had marched on Rome. It would no longer be a system based on charisma, but would instead rest almost entirely on political repression, the leaders would be businesslike and cynical, not idealistic, and they would constantly invoke formulaic appeals to the grandeur of the “great Italian people,” “endlessly summoned to emulate the greatness of its ancestors.”

Substitute in the “great Chinese people” and it all sounds familiar. We are certainly not dealing with a Communist regime, either politically or economically, nor do Chinese leaders, even those who followed the radical reformer Deng Xiaoping, seem to be at all interested in treading the dangerous and uneven path from Stalinism to democracy. They know that Mikhail Gorbachev fell when he tried to control the economy while giving political freedom. They are attempting the opposite, keeping a firm grip on political power while permitting relatively free areas of economic enterprise. Their political methods are quite like those used by the European fascists 80 years ago.

Unlike traditional communist dictators—Mao, for example—who extirpated traditional culture and replaced it with a sterile Marxism-Leninism, the Chinese now enthusiastically, even compulsively, embrace the glories of China’s long history. Their passionate reassertion of the greatness of past dynasties has both entranced and baffled Western observers, because it does not fit the model of an “evolving communist system.”

Yet the fascist leaders of the 1920s and 1930s used exactly the same device. Mussolini rebuilt Rome to provide a dramatic visual reminder of ancient glories, and he used ancient history to justify the conquest of Libya and Ethiopia. Hitler’s favorite architect built neoclassical buildings throughout the Third Reich, and his favorite operatic composer organized festivals to celebrate the country’s mythic past.

Like their European predecessors, the Chinese claim a major role in the world because of their history and culture, not just on the basis of their current power, or scientific or cultural accomplishments. China even toys with some of the more bizarre notions of the earlier fascisms, such as the program to make the country self-sufficient in wheat production—the same quest for autarky that obsessed both Hitler and Mussolini.

To be sure, the world is much changed since the first half of the last century. It’s much harder (and sometimes impossible) to go it alone. Passions for total independence from the outside world are tempered by the realities of today’s global economy, and China’s appetite for oil and other raw materials is properly legendary. But the Chinese, like the European fascists, are intensely xenophobic, and obviously worry that their people may turn against them if they learn too much about the rest of the world. They consequently work very hard to dominate the flow of information. Just ask Google, forced to cooperate with the censors in order to work in China.

Some scholars of contemporary China see the Beijing regime as very nervous, and perhaps even unstable, and they are encouraged in this belief when they see recent events such as the eruption of popular sentiment against the Tibetan monks’ modest protests. That view is further reinforced by similar outcries against most any criticism of Chinese performance, from human rights to air pollution, and from preparations for the Olympic Games to the failure of Chinese quality control in food production and children’s toys. The recent treatment of French retailer Carrefour at the hands of Chinese nationalists is a case in point. It has been publicly excoriated and shunned because France’s President Nicolas Sarkozy dared to consider the possibility of boycotting the Olympics.

In all these cases, it is tempting to conclude that the regime is worried about its own survival, and, in order to rally nationalist passions, feels compelled to portray the country as a global victim. Perhaps they are right. The strongest evidence to support the theory of insecurity at the highest levels of Chinese society is the practice of the “princelings” (wealthy children of the ruling elites) to buy homes in places such as the United States, Canada and Australia. These are not luxury homes of the sort favored by wealthy businessman and officials from the oil-rich countries of the Middle East. Rather they are typically “normal” homes of the sort a potential émigré might want to have in reserve in case things went bad back home.

Moreover, there are reasons to believe that eruptions of nationalist passion do indeed worry the regime, and Chinese leaders have certainly tamped down such episodes in the past. In recent days, the regime has even reached out to the Dalai Lama himself in an apparent effort to calm the situation, after previously enouncing the “Dalai clique” as a dangerous form of separatism and even treason.

On the other hand, the cult of victimhood was always part of fascist culture. Just like Germany and Italy in the interwar period, China feels betrayed and humiliated, and seeks to avenge her many historic wounds. This is not necessarily a true sign of anxiety; it’s an integral part of the sort of hypernationalism that has always been at the heart of all fascist movements and regimes. We cannot look into the souls of the Chinese tyrants, but I doubt that China is an intensely unstable system, riven by the democratic impulses of capitalism on the one hand, and the repressive practices of the regime on the other. This is a mature fascism, not a frenzied mass movement, and the current regime is not composed of revolutionary fanatics. Today’s Chinese leaders are the heirs of two very different revolutions, Mao’s and Deng’s. The first was a failed communist experiment; the second is a fascist transformation whose future is up for grabs.

If the fascist model is correct, we should not be at all surprised by the recent rhetoric or mass demonstrations. Hitler’s Germany and Mussolini’s Italy were every bit as sensitive to any sign of foreign criticism as the Chinese today, both because victimhood is always part of the definition of such states, and because it’s an essential technique of mass control. The violent denunciations of Westerners who criticize Chinese repression may not be a sign of internal anxiety or weakness. They may instead be a sign of strength, a demonstration of the regime’s popularity. Remember that European fascism did not fall as the result of internal crisis—it took a bloody world war to bring it down. Fascism was so alarmingly popular neither Italians not Germans produced more than token resistance until the war began to be lost. It may well be that the mass condemnation of Western calls for greater political tolerance is in fact a sign of political success.

Since classical fascism had such a brief life span, it is hard to know whether or not a stable, durable fascist state is possible. Economically, the corporate state, of which the current Chinese system is a textbook example, may prove more flexible and adaptable than the rigid central planning that doomed communism in the Soviet Empire and elsewhere (although the travails of Japan, which also tried to combine capitalist enterprise with government guidance, show the kinds of problems China will likely face). Our brief experience with fascism makes it difficult to evaluate the possibilities of political evolution, and the People’s Republic is full of secrets. But prudent strategists would do well to assume that the regime will be around for a while longer—perhaps a lot longer.

If it is a popular, fascist regime, should the world prepare for some difficult and dangerous confrontations with the People’s Republic? Twentieth-century fascist states were very aggressive; Nazi Germany and fascist Italy were both expansionist nations. Is it not likely that China will similarly seek to enlarge its domain?

I believe the answer is “yes, but.”  Many Chinese leaders might like to see their sway extend throughout the region, and beyond. China’s military is not so subtly preparing the capability to defeat U.S. forces in Asia in order to prevent intervention in any conflict on its periphery. No serious student of China doubts the enormous ambitions of both the leadership and the masses. But, unlike Hitler and Mussolini, the Chinese tyrants do not urgently need quick geographical expansion to demonstrate the glory of their country and the truth of their vision. For the moment, at least, success at home and global recognition of Chinese accomplishments seem to be enough. Since Chinese fascism is less ideological than its European predecessors, Chinese leaders are far more flexible than Hitler and Mussolini.
Nonetheless, the short history of classical fascism suggests that it is only a matter of time before China will pursue confrontation with the West. That is built into the dna of all such regimes. Sooner or later, Chinese leaders will feel compelled to demonstrate the superiority of their system, and even the most impressive per capita GDP will not do. Superiority means others have to bend their knees, and cater to the wishes of the dominant nation. Just as Mussolini saw the colonization of Africa and the invasion of Greece and the Balkans as necessary steps in the establishment of a new fascist empire, so the Chinese are likely to demand tribute from their neighbors—above all, the Chinese on the island nation of Taiwan, in order to add the recovery of lost territory to the regime’s list of accomplishments. Even today, at a time when the regime is seeking praise, not tribute, in the run-up to the Olympic Games, there are bellicose overtones to official rhetoric.

How, then, should the democracies deal with China? The first step is to disabuse ourselves of the notion that wealth is the surest guarantor of peace. The West traded with the Soviet Union, and gave them credits as well, but it did not prevent the Kremlin from expanding into the Horn of Africa, or sponsoring terrorist groups in Europe and the Middle East. A wealthy China will not automatically be less inclined to go to war over Taiwan, or, for that matter, to wage or threaten war with Japan.

Indeed, the opposite may be true—the richer and stronger China becomes, the more they build up their military might, the more likely such wars may be. It follows that the West must prepare for war with China, hoping thereby to deter it. A great Roman once said that if you want peace, prepare for war. This is sound advice with regard to a fascist Chinese state that wants to play a global role.

Meanwhile, we should do what we can to convince the people of China that their long-term interests are best served by greater political freedom, no matter how annoying and chaotic that may sometimes be. I think we can trust the Chinese leaders on this one. Any regime as palpably concerned about the free flow of information, knows well that ideas about freedom might be very popular. Let’s test that hypothesis, by talking directly to “the billion.” In today’s world, we can surely find ways to reach them.

If we do not take such steps, our risk will surely increase, and explosions of rage, manipulated or spontaneous, will recur. Eventually they will take the form of real actions.

Mr. Ledeen is an expert on U.S. foreign policy at the American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research. He served as a commissioner on the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission from 2001-03.

comments (83)
Steve @ 2008-07-16 14:45:51
It is a shame that people like this have any influence. Just read this: http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen031003.asp and also this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ledeen
you @ 2008-07-06 11:37:41
Funny how the worlds biggest agressor calls everyone else fascist, nazi, commie, fanatic, while all of those properties are in full force at home, but the american sheeple are too brainwashed to do anything or to care about it wake up america before its too late for everyone, funny how G. Bush will be in Bejing alongside the Chinese rulers at the olympics, birds of a feather flock together!
Josie Nguyen @ 2008-07-05 21:31:59
One can only look to the current protests in South Korea due to the PERCEIVED kow-tow of the new government to the US to understand what nationalism means on the streets and among ordinary Asians. In comparison, ordinary Chinese's pro-China demonstrations in response to pro-Tibet protests seem very tame and very restrained indeed. When you look at what's happening in South Korea, one can't help but comes to the conclusion that Mr. Ledeen's faulty arguments against the Chinese nation, motivated by ill will, have totally collapsed like a house of cards.
Andy @ 2008-06-28 09:23:53
yeah, like the right wingers are not gaining popularity in the west. Today, the europeans are more fascists than Hitler could dream of.
Minh Hang @ 2008-06-28 00:23:01
" ........ if you want peace, prepare for war" ?? Is this all the American Enterprise Institute can come up at these days and ages ? This vastly outdated proposition could not have been the bedrock of US foreign policy thinking for so many years, or indeed it was and is still prevalent ? I hope we all have the wisdom to move on from antiquated Roman thoughts. Is Ledeen really an expert on foreign policy? Did he really serve as a commissioner on the US - China Economic and Security Review Commission? Wouldn't mind if someone can check out this because there are full of duds/pretenders on the web that I can't really trust their claims. Anyway, my humblest opinion is that if you want peace then prepare for peace. Is this not much more sensible ?
Neil @ 2008-06-27 19:37:16
Correction of fact: Article has the sentence "Hitler’s favorite architect built neoclassical buildings throughout the Third Reich, and his favorite operatic composer organized festivals to celebrate the country’s mythic past." The first half is true. But Hitler's favorite operatic composer was Richard Wagner, who died in 1883, 50 years before Hitler took power and could not have "organized" anything for Hitler. Wagner is often mistakenly blamed for things that happened long after his lifetime because the Nazis did use his music extensively for propaganda purposes, and because he did make anti-Semitic statements (although some of his best friends were Jews). If Wagner had been around in Nazi times he would have been a target for extermination since he was a leftist revolutionary who associated with the likes of Bakunin.
Josie Nguyen @ 2008-06-26 19:24:34
I thought readers have had enough about this article. Look, at the beginning of the country's reform, China was the poster boy and everybody was joyous. Now China's breakneck development pace suddenly makes people nervous because it's changing the relative positions of power among nations, especially the traditional powers in the West, notably the US. And the conservative and war mongering factions of the West (of which Mr. Ledeen represents) begin to think that they must show China its place. On top of that, different elements of dissent from within China and among the progressive factions in the West also find it efficient and effective to focus their protests on one target and China becomes an easy one because it's big and it's vulnerable; it's vulnerable precisely because of its breakneck development pace. If you protest about the same problem happening in a small country your voice won't be heard. But if you direct your protest towards China, it's effective as far as publicity is concerned. But from a moral standpoint, it doesn not make China any less or more "bad" than any other countries commtting the same sins, including the US. As to nationalism, those who oppose to Chinese nationalism are just as nationalistic as Chinese because they don't want to see their relative position of power on the world stage altered. If they were in a more powerful position before, they certainly want to keep it that way. If they were low in the power Totem pole to begin with, they are jealous about their poor cousin's rise and have no problem in joining the bandwagon of trying to press China down. I'm not defending China, what I'm saying is that China's problems are not worse than the same problems that are prevalent in most if not all developing countries. If one denounces China, one should denounce others as well. People like Mr. Ledeen are among those political speculators trying to capitalize on the world political markets the same way financial speculators are trying to speculate on the stock and commodity markets, for their own gains and NOT because they have any noble ideals. The way that financial speculators make the market is by price and currency attacks, political speculators employ the same tactics, by using the 'fear' factor. Let's be very clear on this, lest we'll fall prey to these political sharks.
Byron @ 2008-06-26 01:13:52
One thing Ledeen doesn't mention is that over the past 15 years, China's educational system has vastly increased its political indoctrination of the nation's youth, which has made the younger generation of Chinese much more nationalistic, xenophobic, and resentful of the outside world than their elders. This is a very bad sign for anyone hoping for world peace!
Jo Burgess @ 2008-06-25 07:19:56
I think the greatest measure of personal freedom in China is the case of Falun Gong. Through Falun Gong we learned that torture, arrest without a warrant, an abusive re-education through labor system, a legal system that is open to influence from party cadres, and even organ harvesting in chinese prisons, all exist in modern China. China is definitely not the only country with human rights issues, most countries including the US have them as well, but I think it's still worth talking about, for everyone-Chinese or western or whoever.
@ 2008-06-19 12:24:18
the sino-communist is the next biggest threat of the world. be careful!!!
chow @ 2008-06-18 10:16:30
I believe hujingtao is modern hilter, China communist party is modern Nazi. I don't believe China communist party is progress, expect technique of cheat and butcher! I agree Cafferty, they are basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they've been for the last 50 years!
chow @ 2008-06-18 10:03:22
As a Chinese, I agree author's viewpoint. Yes! After 1989, China become a fascist country. But most people of free world feel China is a country love peace and people of China aren’t different as people of free world, but it’s wrong. In 50th, China communist party invades Republic of Korean and sustains Indonesian communist party rebellion. Now, in Chinese forum (for example, www.tiexue.net), many Chinese said that China need Invade Japanese (or US/British/French/Taiwan) and butcher all people of the Tokyo (or New York/London/Paris/Taipei). In fact, China government said that they love peace only because they are not have enough energy to invade other Country. Most of Chinese receive illusive history and realism. They believe the reason of China’s poverty is Western Country’s invasion and “HanJian”(mean Chinese Traitor). They believe all country of free world want to invade China and make China become to their settlement. They believe the free and democracy of free world is false. In fact they are paranoia! It’s same as Weimar Republic. I hope people of free world don’t learn Chamberlain’s British. If you want peace and free, you must fight with China. Are you forgot Chinese’s action in Olympic Torch celebration? I also hope Chinese, if you are not spy of China communist party, not sustain China communist party. China communist party killed more than 60 million Chinese. Are you forgot?
Lewis B. Sckolnick @ 2008-06-17 03:08:18
Michael Leeden's article is very divisive and he certainly speaks only for himself and not for the American people or the government of the USA.
Greg @ 2008-06-12 11:14:41
Mr. Ledeen has a bit problem with history. After reading his article, I understood that building neo-classical buildings, making country self-sufficient in wheat production, domination of the flow of information, criticism of France, rebuilding cities and embracing glories of the past makes one's country lead to fascism. I don't think that Congress and Lincoln Mausoleum are build in gothic or baroque style; I won't even talk about the agricultural subsidies in the U.S.; telecom companies in the U.S. right after 2001 were also forced by the Bush Administration into providing data about their subscribers; working in Washington in 2001-2003, Mr. Ledeen had probably more than one occasion to order "freedom fries"... Rebuilding cities and countries, well, how about FDR's "New Deal"? Marshall Plan? What was that then? Embracing glories of the past... United States doesn't do it? Talking about the "fore-fathers", "founding fathers" and the Constitution? For a person who claims to be an expert on U.S. foreign policy, those are very, very weak arguments. Additionally, according to Mr. Ledeen, "Fascism was so alarmingly popular neither Italians not Germans produced more than token resistance until the war began to be lost". Anyone being in the opposition to Hitler at that time was automatically send to jail or concentration camps. Most opposition spend their time in exile or imprisoned. Just look at the biographies of two famous post-war German figures; Willie Brandt and Erich Honecker. Given such conditions, well, don't think Mr. Ledeen would be in opposition at that time himself... And there was one more famous fascist country in Europe - Spain. But here, "General Franco was a loyal friend and ally of the United States." That's according to the President of the United States, Richard Nixon. So now we have a distinction of "good" and "bad" fascism. It seems, as usual, the U.S. foreign policy is full of double standards, and since Mr. Ledeen is so eager to prepare for a war, even quoting one of the Roman emperors, I would suggest here another famous quote from Albert Einstein (a German, who was in opposition during WWII) who said "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
hetra @ 2008-06-10 16:20:52
@007: of course can other countries make the same promises! Even more promises! But no one ever said to keep the promise... The Westerns should not look down on developing countries (especially if this situation is caused by our countries like in Africa). Although Chinese people sometimes show a little too much nationalism for my taste, they still like to buy BMW, Bosch and Louis Vuitton. The rich people keep an eye on quality of products and prefer to buy imports - can this be called nationalism? On one side they have resentments agains Japanese on the other side they collect Hello Kitty - can this be called fascism? We all act the same worldwide. If we have a scapegoat, we use it. Now that China rises and is struggling to keep a certain order in its interior borders, we use them. We blame them for poisoned toys, which are produced by Mattel, a US company, that actually should know better... We blame them for their "greedy oil hunger" while BMW and GM produce cars, that should be forbidden because of their gas hunger and sell it to China. We complain about Chinese policys, but the World Bank still gives money for projects which are doomed. Now the people in China become richer and richer and the governance system is being subject to changes and reforms. What should Chinese believe in, if not in traditional values which are recalled more and more now? Should they switch to plain Manchester Capitalism? My personal opinion is that the main thing missing in China as well as in most other countries simply is the sense of community and the will to help and protect these who are weaker than oneself.
shawn Chen @ 2008-06-09 14:05:31
Why does the rest of the world have to prepare for a war with China while the Chinese themselves feel just the opposite? The Chinese leaders, for example, opine that the country is contributing to worldwide peace and development since more and more people are getting out of poverty; the ordinary people are condifent in each one's life as economic and administrative (not yet political) reforms and openness provide ample opportunities. Can I suggest Feer be more serious towards irresponsible remarks such Mr. Ledeen's?
cnnbbc @ 2008-06-07 22:49:28
are you crazy???
fay @ 2008-06-07 18:05:47
Obviously the author thought himself clever than all Chinese. This article can reflect he knows China, but only a little. Also his arrogance.
john @ 2008-06-06 23:42:39
such a stupid man! In fact , i'm very happy to know us goverment has a idiot expert. It is obviously that Mr Ledeen want to have a war with china,and then he have to find some reasons. Does he know what is fascism?
sabri @ 2008-06-06 17:55:55
I think that all the misunderstandings among everybody who answered are a good model, in scale of course, of what's going on around the world and the medias' world... Anyway, as for me: I think that, even if the article is enough in line with the U.S.A. current political view, it doesn't mean that it's only a propaganda article. I do not think that "Mr. Ledeen may be stretching himself a little too thin", even if I do agree that "one cannot be expert in everything". As I am a sinologist, who's living,working and studying in China since 3years, studying it since 10...WELL...I must say that actually also "the expert", mainly the expert, must always remember that he/she just knows something more and that is just a good chance to try to be open-minded, as a risk to rest on some discoveries without trying to go forward step by step, mistake after mistake... It's true:It takes years, even decades, to learn the Chinese language and everything, but I do not feel that it is the case to question so much whether or not the author is the best person to write such an article and how much weight we should give to his theory...and the reason is very simple: he does not have "a theory" His comparison is pointed and claimed as a possible methodology and is not a theory at all. He only says that it could be quite useful TO USE THE FASCIST MODEL AS A MEAN (he says a MODEL) TO UNDERSTAND THE CURRENT CHINESE GOVERNMENT's ORGANIZATION AND INFLUENCE ON ITS PEOPLE. well... I am Italian, I am a sinologist and I am actually studying the same topics you all are discussing about and , yes I try to have a quite liberal and open view (I just try)'cause it is the only thing that works-out with every kind of research. Anyway,since I started to have the chance to attend classes and debates in mainland China, to debate and study many topics in here, with my Chinese collagues, to be always the only westerner in every occasion, to see the way in which the history is narrated in here and so on, I started to be very very very interested to European and Italian Fascist/Nationalist's organization, propaganda and so on...as well as to U.S.A.'s policies and so on... ..oh well, To be sincere, actually the fascist model-as a model for social and cultural control, with all the differences of the case (which are a lot, but less than in other cases)- works-out pretty good as a base for future comparisons and researches. it is just a comparison, a mean to some researches, nobody said that "all the Chinese are fascists" or something like this! the only scary thing in here is how much everybody always in this contemporary confusing mediatic world...and war...only focuses on few words without taking care of the points somebody wants to express. So, the fact that Mr.Leeden was "immediatly accused of heaping insult upon China by speculating on it's "fascism", by those who obviously have never studied what fascism was" is what I consider most scary in here...as when european peoples where considered xenophobic because there was a high percent of persons who said they did not like Israel's policy in Gaza Stripe...so...I mean...where's the connection between these two points? what are we talking about?
Tyson @ 2008-06-06 16:52:18
It is interesting, all this ultra-nationalist talk in America as China rises up. Not interesting because it is new, mind you. Interesting because it is a tested pattern of history. What about Darfur, what about Burma, etc. Painting the leadership in China as a modern fascist regime was entirely expected to anyone who was paying any attention. In the 1980s and 1990s because of the US`s bilateral trad debt with Japan, there was much trash-talking about that country, too. But it never gets down to a cut and dry comparison. Let`s take, the USA`s involvement in the Phillipeines for example, or Chile and compare it with China`s support in Africa. Or let`s take the USA`s support of subfascist regimes in Central America, the Mideast and Indonesia and compare to China`s support of Burma. This propagandist article brings a veil over the machinations of the USA and moulds China into somethign that it is not: fascist. No more fascist than, say, providing dictators in Brazil with weapons and training (as the USA did) or supporting S. Hussein with money, aid, weapons and the gas with which he poisoned the Kurds. And anyone who listens to this garbage without furthering their own knowledge by making an inquiry into the facts on their own steam does themselves much harm.
aa @ 2008-06-05 14:58:28
你这个人太笨了,偏激加对中国的成见,有本事去说说Amercia,china无论走什么道路永远是YOU anti my country !I hate YOU! my englsih is bad! but our cuntry are well!不要忘了是你们侵略了我的国家,我们会永记!资本主义的侵略!
@ 2008-06-05 09:01:52
作者只是个,无知、狂妄、战争狂。。美国霸权存在一天,全世界永无宁日。。
Richard Collnis @ 2008-06-05 08:22:50
The Ledeen article was cheap journalism at its worst. He took failings of the Chinese government that are well known to all readers, imparting no new information, and added the bizarre notion that combined with appeals to patriotism and vague ideas about China starting wars, the mix should be described as fascism. Since 1949, China has started no wars. Of course it supported the brutal side in Korea, but even that was long ago. In that period, the U.S. has begun several wars, including the Iraq debacle. And how strange for Ledeen to think that appeals to patriotism = fascism, when U.S. senators are justly lampooned for wearing flag lapel pins.
Neo Jiang @ 2008-06-05 08:06:33
This so called expert is such an idiot! Why do you keep fixating on the problems? In the world, who made a bigger progress than China in the recent 20 years?
yun wang @ 2008-06-05 00:10:34
I still need to write a paper. So, I just have some questions for Mr. Ledeen and his supporters. First, what is human right? If the human right against majority people's interests, can we still call it human right? Second, according to you, we are going to have WWIII, will you Mr. Ledeen, together with your supporters go to the front? Third, "the Chinese now enthusiastically, even compulsively, embrace the glories of China’s long history." As a Chinese, I am proud of what 1.3 billion have done and what we are going to do for this country, but not embrace the history. I want to know how many Chinese you can represent? Third, if China give up self-sufficient in wheat production project do you know how many people will die? Oh, I forgot, you don't care about it. Forth, why so many study and work abroad Chinese love China and understand our government more and more instead of turn against them? Fifth, were you in Tibet when Tibetan monks’ "modest" protests? Last, do you think American are foolish by told them Chinese boycotte Carrefour because France’s President Nicolas Sarkozy dared to consider the possibility of boycotting the Olympics instead of the truth which I believe you know no less than us. It's too long, I don't want to read further to waste too much of my time. Just for fun, you know, writing paper sometimes is such a painful thing.
chinese @ 2008-06-04 22:43:21
i wang to say so many people of the WEST don`t understand the Chinese civilization at all,because your IQ is so low that only can use one kind of thought to look at the other country which is not Christian.Idiot~!
Enclave @ 2008-06-04 18:22:01
不要为了对抗而寻求对抗。你们西方最大的失败在于一些啥都不懂的人,也能成为专家。
clangfe @ 2008-06-04 16:40:41
if you spread hatreds among people,if you pose a military threat to other countries,if you force you opinion based on nonsense to others, then you can be called a fascist, just as Hitler ever did so.This article is a disgrace of america democracy.I can`t believe it is written by an expert.Wow!God bless America.
@ 2008-06-04 15:16:54
作者后代希特勒的后代,墨索里尼的信徒,向和平的中国人民发出的战争动员。
来自中国 @ 2008-06-04 14:16:57
法西斯是西方人的专利,中国从历史、现在到未来都不会盗版你们的法西斯。
@ 2008-06-04 13:54:23
Congratulations! After all this, FEER won the notoriousness! Why not writte a serial, prove that China is a slavery country which culture originated from Voodoo, and the government have slaughtered one billion Puritan last 30 years since vanquished Eskimo? And whatever, it's confirmed that Beijing allowed a Nazi to be Dalai Lama's teacher, isn't it? By the way, the witter forgot a sameness between Chinese leader and Hitler, their hair are both black. What a convincing evidence is it!
one day @ 2008-06-04 13:11:33
I am a Chinese in China. Think you for your study of china. It makes me think more about my people and myself. Before 2008, China had many internal problem, every Chinese have their own complaint, that was naturally, everybody had their own benefit and ambition, especially in today in China. such as, corruption of officer, pollution, equity of child education and career. But after the very strong prejudice from the western society, all the internal problem of China was disappear; everybody became a patriot, Just like 911 in America. But if you are a Chinese, what kind of behave would you choose when the all the westen people say: your country need to be split, the reason is an obvious lie. Western people know the old Tibet was slavery; most of Tibetans were slaves except 5% masters and Lamas. At least, we think, western history expert know it, why they are silent at this time. Western medias said there was "crackdown" in Tibet, like 1989 in Tiananmen, I was a student in 1989 in Beijing, but we all Chinese know that today is not 1989, "crackdown" is impossible in today in China. Western medias were lying obviously. All this taught Chinese, western people were inimical. So all the Chinese chose anger because western people's prejudice was too deep. That is where your Fascism comes from.
Hans @ 2008-06-04 11:34:47
I have to say that I’ve very rarely read such nonsense as Ledeen’s essay, even by Ledeen whose writings I have monitored pretty closely since 9/11 for indications of what Richard Perle, James Woolsey, Victor Davis Hansen, Dick Cheney, and even Karl Rove may be talking about when they get together in various permutations and combinations. He argues, among other things, that the China of today is what Italy would look like “50 years after the fascist revolution” if Mussolini’s corporatist state had somehow survived into the 1970’s, requiring of the reader an act based solely on his or her imagination and absolutely no empirical evidence of any kind. In Ledeen’s imagination, such a state would “no longer be a system based on charisma, but would instead rest almost entirely on political repression, the leaders would be businesslike and cynical, not idealistic, and they would constantly invoke formulaic appeals to the grandeur of the ‘great Italian people…’.” While Ledeen might think that description constitutes “classical fascism,” I don’t see the difference between that and a typical autocratic regime that bases its legitimacy on some form of nationalism. After about another 1,200 words of rampant speculation based on virtually nothing but (mostly questionable) cliches and stereotypes — “the Chinese, like the European fascists, are intensely xenophobic…;” “Just like Germany and Italy in the interwar period, China feels betrayed and humiliated, and seeks to avenge her many historic wounds;” “…the short history of classical fascism suggests that it is only a matter of time before China will pursue confrontation with the West” — Ledeen concludes: “It follows that the West must prepare for war with China, hoping thereby to deter it.” Based on my own modest experience in China, I have no doubt that the country (not unlike the U.S.) is nationalistic, that its ambitions as an emerging global power are significant, and that (again, like the U.S.) it considers military power an essential component of great-power status. But “fascist?” That’s quite a leap. From his own post-graduate study of Italian fascism, as well as his work under the great George Mosse at the University of Wisconsin, surely Ledeen knows that a cult of violence (to which Ledeen and other hard-line neo-cons like Charles Krauthammer have themselves shown a perverse attraction) and the so-called Fuehrerprinzip — the notion that a charismatic leader who thoroughly embodies the virtues of a nation should be revered and his orders followed without question — are central to the “classical” fascist ideologies that grew up in Europe in the 1920s and 30s. And while one can argue that both characteristics were on display during the Cultural Revolution, it would be very difficult to find any trace of them in the Chinese leadership today. That a once-respected and influential journal should publish this kind of agitprop is truly disgraceful.
Hans @ 2008-06-04 11:24:44
Last time I checked, U.S. already has more than 50% of the world's military budget. Why do you write this article to ask for more military budgets from taxpayers already hammered by the economic disaster? I pray to god that you are not U.S.'s policy maker.
happytosee @ 2008-06-04 10:03:18
Mr. Ledeen,Good job! Keep on closing your eyes, and befooling Americans. I read some articles like yours 10 years ago, when I was 13 and felt angry. But now I'm very glad to see the people like you have made no progress during the past 10 years. We are Yellow Peril We are Communists We are Brain Washed We are Nazis And what will be the next Be more creative, Mr Ledeen. Your opinion is too timeworn. Keep on working, Mr Ledeen.我看好你哦 :P
Amanda @ 2008-06-04 09:21:41
Mr Michael Ledeen is a dangerous people. He try to tell people China is dangerous and start war and hatred between the two nations. Review this article, you can see how many words are data or facts, and how many words are his imagine. A reasonal people who want to believe this article, he should visit china firstly.
dakelv @ 2008-06-04 08:42:01
Judged by this article and other famous quotes attributed to Mr. Ledeen, I have every reason to believe that he is the very proponent of fascism himself. The following quotes are taken from a wikipedia article on Mr. Ledeen: "the level of casualties (in Iraq) is secondary" "we are a warlike people (Americans)...we love war" "Change — above all violent change — is the essence of human history" "the only way to achieve peace is through total war" "The purpose of total war is to permanently force your will onto another people" Need I say more?!
kihin @ 2008-06-04 04:12:42
look at usa, what you did!!!!! iraq,afghantistan and so on,and you have so many army base on the world.and your soldier went to north korea ,vietnan,iraq,afghantistan and so on. what do you think???how many people you did killed????? who is the fascism????? why we try our best to solve the food problem,and you call this is fascism????? the only answer I got that is you are stupid and you are fascism!!!!!!!!! YOU ARE FASCISM!!!!!!!
kihin @ 2008-06-04 03:26:41
you are the one what you said Fascism
James DeBono @ 2008-06-03 21:43:08
In the first place I want to congratulate the Far Eastern Economic Review for yet again publishing another article written by yet another incoherent, morally bankrupt and evil Western intellect like Mr. Michael Ledeen. As we all know very well, the description of a truly dangerous and malignant Fascist state can be very aptly applied to the Anglo Saxon countries namely the USA. These countries have been at war with the rest of the world since the end of World War II. They cannot live in peace with themselves or with others. Everything he says in this article is really more about the USA than any other country in the world. Why do we keep hearing this kind of nonsense? The answer is simple. The neo cons (actually the Fascists) are masters of deception (e.g. WMD in Iraq) who will stop at nothing to convince themselves that they are indeed the Master Race aka Adolf Hitler. Like the Nazis, they will one day be utterly destroyed!!!!!!!!!
Toth @ 2008-06-02 01:30:58
In the imagination of mr. Ledeen a 50 year post-Mussolini fantasy must be about as easy to do as fantasizing about post-war Iraq or post-war Iran. And with the same kind of accuracy that would means getting everything wrong or rather said not getting anything at all. The sole basis for this ridiculous comparison between real contemporary China and an imaginary post-WWII Italy is the absence of an emphasis on political idealism and/or ideology within the leadership and the adoption of a more pragmatic and technocratic approach of governing. From this non-existent premise, a specially tailored definition of classical fascism, now reduced to a form of state-corporatism and the observation of historical and cultural sense of national pride in Chinese - patriotism as US citizens call it and never cease to pride themselves on - mr Ledeen draws the conclusion that China is a “classical” fascist state. It seems to me that indeed this cannot amount to anything more than petty name-calling. Classical fascism is not a single well defined concept. Among the features that could serve as an outline of classical fascism, many are very well applicable to neoconservatism. Historically they are believers of permanent warfare; they think life is purely lived for struggle. Self-criticism, let alone pacifism is seen as direct support for the enemy. Because of their simultaneous need for enemies and self-exaltation, they shift constantly between painting their enemies too strong and too weak. They believe in the noble lie and are incapable of objectivity. Insofar as xenophobia is a feature of classical fascism it is primarily directed at minorities inside. We can recognize much more classical fascism in neoconservatism as a movement and their grip on the present US administration who with their unprecedented lawlessness, erosion of liberty, centralization of power and militarization of society and their devils pact with the extreme rightwing christian end-timers who truly are fascist in every way, than we can in developing countries like China despite all their - sometimes tragic – flaws. But it is easy to see why mr Ledeen doesn’t understand any of all of this if he laments that: “classical fascism had such a brief life span, that it is hard to know whether or not a stable, durable fascist state is possible.” History of man truly begins in 1939 for these neocons. Anyway it should be clear the interest for these neocon morons is not in evaluating real political situations or balances of power or in any shape or form striving for objectivity in assessments, but purely in creating anti-China propaganda and maximizing bilateral animosity. And so this is why mr Ledeen so excessively exaggerates, lining up the whole worn-out parade Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Hitler to construct in real Ledeenite fashion the most eejitic absurdies. Like Mao erasing history and Chinese now embracing proves Chinese fascism. Or Hitler had an architect who built new stuff and China builds new stuff too and so China is a fascist state. And for those recalcitrant doubters still not swept off their feet by these undeniable facts, mr Ledeen shows those darned evil Chinese xenophobes even want to grow their own wheat. So if that isn’t fascism then what is? Later on Hitler and Mussolini are compared in a more direct way to the “Chinese tyrants.” According to mr Ledeen because both Hitler and Mussolini were expansionist and Chinese are not, but they could become. So that settles that. Finally engaging with the Dalai Lama in talks is still further proof of their inherent fascism. And so according to mr. Ledeen the US must prepare for war with China, because that is the best way peace can be maintained. As we have seen with Iraq, this logic works well for these neocon believers in permanent war. However if China would prepare for war with the US for the same reason, this could not serve the same goal. The logic of the “great Roman“ would instantly collapse and automatically change into it’s opposite. This type of factfree agitprop rethoric in which mr. Ledeen excels isn’t helpful for anyone. At best it is ignored because it contains nothing of value for those interested in truth.
Lester Ness @ 2008-06-01 13:43:43
I've long suspected that the people who started the war in Iraq, liberated a vast number of Iraqis of their lives and limbs would want to do the same to China. Perhaps this is the first shot in a new war of national vanity by US messianic nationalists
a Duoist @ 2008-05-31 14:24:54
It's understandable reading so many upset comments to Dr. Ledeen's opinion that most of the commenters do not know anything about Dr. Ledeen's expertise on the study of fascism. His scholarship on fascism gives him a world-wide credibility. Disagree with his views on fascism if you like, but know that he is extremely well-informed.
Love China @ 2008-05-31 00:20:47
Don't worry.
Give US$ 13 trillion to all Chinese folks, all money must be deposited into Chinese folks' domestic accounts. Then provide 1-year election theory and best practice sessions to all Chinese folks. Remember, you must afford the training fees completely by yourself. China folks will pay no penny for the training.
In the coming 2 years we will start the direct election first in a county, then a city, then a province. if everything is ok we will have a national discussion to decide whether we should have a plenary national direct election.
In these two years all you must depost US$ 13*2 trillion to all Chinese folks' domestic accounts again.
Remember again, US dollar can not depreciate in these years. US$ 13 trillion should be nearly equals to the total GDP of USA in 2007.

Life and living are the basic things. Give us enough money then we will show what's democracy.
Yan @ 2008-05-30 10:38:03
Mr. Ledeen is a very good storyteller. The article is suitable for most American who are brainwashed by one-sided media and don't have time to do some research by themselves. China is rising both economically and politically. Should the stronger necessarily means more dangerous? It depends on many factors, and many are unpredictable. No experts can safely be regarded as futureteller of a country's fate. One of best evidence should be CIA's false predict on USSR. If hundreds of elites specialized in predicting one country's future can be wrong, where can you get the warrantty on Mr.Ledeen's eyecatching article? I have a suggestion, please read more on China's history. Fascism is not the natural birth of one country's economic rise and global influence. It needs a culture root to justify it. In the history, China had once become the most developed country in the world for a long time, how many colonies had China ocuppied? How ambitious were the kings to expand China's territory after their reuniting the country? I think these answers could be very helpful to evaluate China's danger to the world since many still think China is a authoritarian country like old times.
Mr. Wang @ 2008-05-29 16:04:35
i'm a chinese.i am surprise by the article. yes,china has many shortcomings.we should try our best to improve people living standard. and reforms should be carried on in many areas. but i do never know we are treated as fasicism. we do never think of starting a war. we love peace.all the people in the world are human beings. black,white and yellow,etc,are all family members!
moom @ 2008-05-28 22:58:44
And yes, Russia is more fascist than either China or the US.
Josie Nguyen @ 2008-05-28 04:32:12
Americans see the rest of the World in terms of US politics but the Chinese think that foreigners ought to mind their own business when it comes to Chinese politics. This asymmetric behavior is called "Strategic Culture" in international relations studies. Strategic culture basically boils down to how a nation plans its defences according to their historical experiences, with the most recent, or the most traumatic, or both as the central references around which the country devices its plan. From its World War I & II and 9/11 experiences, America sees itself as the savior of the World and the leader of the free world. Ordinary citizens outside the US scratch their head when American presidents send US troops abroad to defend America. To them these acts are not defensive but aggressive. But many (but not all) Americans genuinely feel that they are doing the world a favor. The Chinese, on the other hand, consider the Opium Wars, the Ba guo lian jun and partial colonization of the country by Western powers. The Chinese people stood helpless when they saw their country being cut-up for the enjoyment of the Western Imperialists. They feel that they haven't done anything to deserve this mistreatment, and the lingering anti-Western attitude among the Chinese stems from those experiences. At a personal one-on-one level, I don't think ordinary Chinese people are anti-Western, in fact they embrace Western culture, especially the younger generation. At the national level, I can only speculate that not many Chinese (I mean ordinary Chinese) believe that Western powers would want to be kind to the Chinese nation. It is unfortunate that incompetent analysts such as Mr. Ledeen has ignored strategic culture considerations. I can only hope and pray that people like Mr. Ledeen are kept far away from the corridors of power in Washington, for the sake of world peace.
coldblooded3 @ 2008-05-28 00:35:38
Tibetan monks "modest" protests? I stoped reading there.
Ngụy Tiên Sinh @ 2008-05-27 19:42:55
"In modern history, it has not provoked nationalism ideology to invade colonize as the US did." @ Do Thanh Hai: Your name suggests that you are Vietnamese, or of Vietnamese descent, so I'ld like to remind you of a few tidbits in recent history to point out that China had indeed done so, as far as when her conflicts with Vietnam are concerned. 1. In 1974 The PRC invoked nationalism(propaganda posters abound, mind you) to forcibly take the Paracel Islands from The Republic of Vietnam. 2. In 1979 The PRC invaded Vietnam(again, propaganda posters are abound, plus a few jingoistic Hollywood style war movies,) laid waste to a few northern provinces just to remind VN of its vassal status. 3. In 1988 The PRC again went on an territories grabbing expedition and took several islands in the Spratly Archipelagos from Vietnamese control. For all the people for took to an indignant righteousness reaction to this article, I'ld like to point to the author's conclusion that it's in the interests of those who embrace the value of Peace and Democracy(Chinese or otherwise) to convince the ordinary Chinese citizen that Fascism is not the way to go at it.
G. Hosf @ 2008-05-27 19:25:52
Mr. Ledeen's twisted mind has nothing better to do than to visualise as negatively as historically justified to tarnish a nation struggling economic development for her mass population that was lagging far behind other third world countries only two decades ago, let alone the west.
freedomforasia @ 2008-05-27 15:11:57
There are so many excuses for a dictatorial Chinese regime based on what the other Western countries did. WE have to see straight to the fact that China is not willing to be a democratic country, and no matter what the majority of the Chinese population wants, its government will not allow democracy to happen. The author of this article raised a good point about preparing for war to secure peace. It does not mean he wants war on the Chinese people. But among China, there is no strong enough force to improve its internal situations, then the international community needs to care more. I disagree with the author that not just only the so-called "the West", but first and foremost, the neighboring ASIAN countries need to prepare for themselves in the worst case. To communist Chinese sympathizers, you guys need to understand this is not about the threat to the Chinese people particularly, but this is the warning to the fear of a growing dictatorial menace in the region. Ask around your Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese or any other South East Asian friends, if all of them tell you that the CHINESE GOVERNMENT is a friendly one, I will be very surprised.
@ 2008-05-27 14:40:25
Mr. Ledeen is either stupid or stupid!
Tiger @ 2008-05-27 14:16:56
The history of china is the invasion and annexation. It conquered neighbours and annexed them. Chinese people thougth that they are master race, the others are inferior rank. They considered their country as the center of the world and must be leader. Other countries as vassal. Vassal must obey the orders from the master and contribute valluable asset to the master country. The sino ethnic group assimilated others ethnic group, the same thing are happening in Tibet nowaday. Chinese leaders and chinese people nowaday have a same mind as their ancestor. They want to control the world, they had a plan for this. That why they became nuke-armed country and spent all income to armed. WWIII will come sooner or later if chinese leader and chinese people still keeping sino-centric minded.
Brian Kern @ 2008-05-27 03:32:05
Mr. Ledeen's comments on the nature of the current Chinese government are very well-articulated and mordant. To look at the regime from the perspective of fascism helps to illuminate many of its characteristics, which Mr Ledeen enumerates so well. Indeed, apart from creating an exceedingly corrupt, unjust, and sick society within China, the largest country in the world lead by such a government could eventually become a threat to peace both in the region and further abroad. Still, the end of the article is rather disappointing, as it seems to fall back into simply taking the perspective of US security interests, and that in a rather narrowly defined way. There are many things that governments can currently do to counteract the fascist tendencies Mr. Ledeen identifies so well. First of all, they can put human rights much higher on their agendas. For too long, business interests have been paramount in diplomatic relations. In many respects, this emphasis on trade to the detriment of human rights reinforces the fascist tendencies, rather than necessarily leading to liberalization-- the "engagement" doctrine preached in recent years with little evidence to support it. Another thing to realize is that Chinese society today is indeed one with many cracks. While the face that it has shown the world recently is that of rabid nationalism, it is important to remember that within China today, there are many individuals, groups and small organizations struggling to develop a healthy civil society. They face great odds and persecution at the hands of the authorities. These civil society forces should be supported. For every rabid nationalist, there is another person who detests the Chinese government for the injustices he has suffered at its hands. Thirdly, China is already demonstrating its power, both within the region and further abroad. Its alliances with other "fascist" regimes such as those of Burma, Sudan and Zimbabwe demonstrate that. Throughout Africa, it is building roads and other infrastructure. And within Asia, mostly through its economic might, it has having diverse influences which are less than liberal. Indeed, even Western governments are often intimidated by China. Presenting an alternative model of soft power based on human rights and just economic and trade policies would go a long way to counteract the often negative influence China is already having beyond its borders. Lastly, of course, the US can counteract its own "fascist" tendencies such as illegal invasion of other countries, creation of gulags like Guanatanamo, the practice of torture, unthinking reflexes of victimization and nationalism, and definition of "security" in such negative zero-sum terms, so that criticism of China doesn't sound so much like the pot calling the kettle black. On top of this, the US must help to construct an international order based on rule of law rather than seeking to undermine it as has been the tendency in recent years. Ultimately, it will be such actions that both help China to become a more rights-respecting state and contain its negative influences abroad. These are human rights issues but they are also security issues. Ultimately, there is little difference between the two.
Greg @ 2008-05-27 00:38:28
Great job ! China becomes dangerous !
Steven HU @ 2008-05-26 21:52:39
Totally shocked by the essay,which reveals nothing but the authour's ignorant nonsense.i can't imagine that AEI has such an "expert".
bailoo @ 2008-05-25 17:05:07
Article rings true, and is definitely supported by the scary nationalism displayed by overseas Chinese when they attacked protesting foreigners (in foreign soil, where the Chinese are staying as foreign guests) during the global Olympic torch relay, most especially in Korea and Australia. Even a mock relay in NZ organized by the local Chinese community had problems with "peaceful Chinese participants" turning violent. Add to that their burning hate for Japan, with some even relishing the thought of annexing it some time in the future, their territorial disputes with a lot of their neighbors, and their belief in the greatness (supremacy?) of the great Han race (local Chinese where I stay insist that their children only marry "pure" Chinese), the future doesn't look too encouraging. All the money being pumped into military spending isn't reassuring as well. But hey, what's a single person from a poor Asian neighbor to do? No way we can stand up against the economic Chinese prowess. Even our military can't stop an invasion if they wanted to overrun us. Next thing you know the PRC will be dictating what TV shows we can and cannot watch. Oh well. Anyway, to all the previous commenters, PRC sponsored thought police or not, kindly tone down the ad hominem attacks. It's lame, see. Please attack the merits of the article, not the person who wrote it. Stop pointing at other countries as well. And to that person who lumped all of us Asians with the Chinese, please don't do that. It's not flattering. Our people will never go around the world to "peacefully protest" something, and then suddenly attack any foreigners who we think don't agree with us.
jacob @ 2008-05-25 13:22:46
It is an embarrassment to the entire American government to have Mr. Ledeen represent anybody but himself. It is a disgrace for Far Eastern Economic Review to sponsor such an inflammatory piece. As an American, I am again shocked and ashamed of my government's "advisers" such as him. How can anyone make a statement: "It follows that the West must prepare for war with China, hoping thereby to deter it." That is exactly how wars are started! I am sorry, reading this essay and this journal is a total waste of my time. It is people like Mr. Ledeen that incite all the wars while sending their neighbor's kids to harms way.
Betty @ 2008-05-25 00:31:08
Fascism? What terrible demonization! Is it wrong to love and be pride of one's own country? Don't Americans do so as well? Talking about history, I don't think most Chinese people know enough about its own history, or have proper respect to it.
Josie Nguyen @ 2008-05-24 23:39:09
I think the cause of the problem that we see on this discussion forum stems from FEER's bad editorial practice. When you publish an article such as Mr. Ledee's you know for sure that will stir up a great deal of raw emotions among ordinary people, your editor should have anticipated that and provided a counter-point article, instead of relying on reader's comments because most readers do not write for a living. And this is not the only article in the same issue that targets China and the whole edition has absolutely no counter-point balance. One can understand why (at least some) people are angry. And I am proud to be one of those angry people. In the age of mass media, perception is reality, FEER should have known this. I'm not advocating self-censorship, I am advocating balance, fairness and responsible editorial practice.
chill head to feet @ 2008-05-24 02:44:41
For those who believe US experience of great democracy is great, such as expressed "The U.S. allows both sides to express their points of view....", how can they take it for granted, that this great country is built on the foundation of enslaving "negros" and slaughtering native "indians" and squeezing them into pockets of human zoos, and is still inflicting so much more injustice around the world, and "the two sides" or many sides in the U.S.A, did not seem to help much, what need to happen in terms of suffering still happen. Being able to debate about is one thing, being able to be unmistaken in acts and stopping the consequence do not necessarily correlate to merely freedom of speech. At the most, mist Ledeen represents one opinion, as unscholarly as this opinion can be. What made me angry is not about how China was treated as a Fascist state, but the kind of views exchanged here seems to remind me that human being do not learn from the larger pattern of the history: why human kill human, human humiliate human? What happened could happen again because of exactly the kind of unfriendliness and ignorance and bigotry such discussion have demonstrated. Come on, show some faith in yourself!
Bruce @ 2008-05-23 19:39:57
The tone of this discussion is dismaying. Mr. Ledeen has made a provocative argument, although one that I think is fundamentally wrong. In response he, along with all Americans, nay all Westerners (even Swedes?), is attacked in a series of racist farragos. Isn't the tone of such responses providing evidence for his main point? I suppose someone will shortly accuse Mr. Ledeen of being Jewish. Fortunately, I think most people familiar with China would respond to his views by challenging the argument on its own merits (or lack thereof) rather than launching into such bigotry. But please don't prove me wrong!
Do Thanh Hai @ 2008-05-17 15:21:55
(With little correction) That is the monstrosity of extreme freedom of speech, Western-styled mass media crap and American arrogance. It is not a big problem if you guys make fun / humiliate an Asian individual, but it is huge mistake to insult the his/her family, nation, and belief. What is the consequence then? Many Western people are instilled with that shit and then believe that China is really the curse of the world. And China becomes more suspicious, feels humiliated, and more reserved. Nobody knows how one Chinese and billion of them feels when reading morally irresponsible piece. It is unfair because China is showing its willingness, and striving for the better. It has its own problems but only it can solve evolutionarily its problems. In modern history, it has not provoked nationalism / ideology to invade / colonize other countries as US did. The West is proud of democracy, human rights and liberty. Yeah, that is fair and I appreciate those ideals. But, please look into history to see those ideals have been partly achieved by what, guns, fights, and unparalleled destruction. Western people may feel the same way, 'PROUD, with devastating consumerism and the two notorious World Wars. Those civilized people killed, at the most atrocity and with the most advanced weapons, millions of people at a stroke. I personally think nobody except the West may be the cause of the Third World War if there is and if they continue to think their own way could be a panacea.
Josie Nguyen @ 2008-05-15 22:34:40
To Mr. Gee who wrote: "...by those who obviously have never studied what fascism was." and "... If the answer is yes they would allow these abuses, then we surely do not understand "Asians" ( whoever those are in that broad canvas) as Ms. Nguyen means them and I am not sure that, on those terms, one would want to." Mister, you are putting a lot of words into people's mouth is my answer to you in a nutshell. As to what fascism is, may I suggest that you read [Carlo Levi, Christ Stopped at Eboli: The Story of a Year Christopher Browning, Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland]. Mussolini and Hitler mesmerized entire populations into fanatical devotion, seducing them to forfeit democracy and freedom for an eternal state of war and genocide. Are you saying that China is doing that? Also, I would bet my next cup of coffee that most learned observers on China would agree that Chinese citizens have significant freedom but limited democracy. These two concepts are different. But then again, China has been singled out by Western media as being non-responsive to the Burma relief effort on the Security Council but NOT A SINGLE WORD mentioning Russia who has a similar position as China. As to Darfur, do you know which countries are providing most of the arms to the current regime? I bet you're going to say China and I say, check again and you would be surprised. As said earlier, I'm not a fan of the Chinese regime, but I am angry at Western media nowadays that is very trigger happy blaming China for all the ills in the world. Remember this from your parents: "broccoli is good for you, eat it" and ask how many kids resent this attitude from their parents. The West is doing exactly this to China, Asia, Africa and many developing countries around the globe. Remember what Marshall McLuhan, arguably the most influential media theorist of the 20th century, said: "the medium is the message". Think about it, and think a little bit more; especially Mr. Ledeen.
Dab @ 2008-05-14 17:53:57
Nice shot August! You sound quite reasonable. But I think you should read the whole article more carefully. It is admirable precisely for daring to use the 'F' word in a meaningful sense, and not just as a term of abuse (which nowadays is the most usual). China's 'Liberation' of Tibet is no doubt the imperialism you have in mind when you speak about "liberating." US out of Iraq! China out of Tibet! Long live French Fries! Long live moral indignation!
al @ 2008-05-13 13:16:43
You 've really understood it.
Concerned Citizen @ 2008-05-13 07:27:21
August, I think most people would agree that China has moved from communism to fascism. Everyone has the utmost respect for the hard work and sincerity of the Chinese people -- we want them to enjoy the fruits of their labors and welcome the economic development they have experienced. However, we don't abide by the lack of basic human rights, namely freedom of speech and religion, that are enjoyed in many parts of the world outside of China. The recent crackdown on Tibetan protestors and the ongoing persecution of Falun Gong, where hundreds of thousands have been imprisoned and thousands murdered, are some of the many examples. Our concern is that countries that lack these basic freedoms eventually become a problem for everyone else. As Mr. Ledeen implies "Is there a single example of a fascist government ending well?"
Peter Gee @ 2008-05-13 03:01:39
All this anguish from Miss Nguyen, August and others but there is a problem. The Chinese regime is obviously not communist and certainly not democratic, so just what is it? Mr.Leeden is immediatly accused of heaping insult upon China by speculating on it's "fascism", by those who obviously have never studied what fascism was. They think it merely an all purpose insult. Rather, it is a political situation with noticeable features. Tose include hypernationalism (with or without various filters of racial purity), private enterprise rigidly controlled by the state (privatized socialism) and severe abscence of, and hostility to, democracy. One might also add the worship of a mythical, and deeply "wronged", past which, if allowed to bloom anew, would prove the superiority that has always been inherent in the genius of the people in question. Looks like China, sounds like China, tastes like China, though of course I may be wrong. Miss Nguyen needs to be asked, if China possessed democratic insitutions, would the Chinese people allow the forms of abuse they are hidden from at present in Tibet, in the Chinese non-response to the Burma crisis, Dafur and other events where even the humanitarian instinct is masked in the obsessive need to make primary the national interest, as seen by the ruling clique? If the answer is yes they would allow these abuses, then we surely do not understand "Asians" ( whoever those are in that broad canvas) as Ms. Nguyen means them and I am not sure that, on those terms, one would want to. However I believe that giants like China, when they have broad access to denocratic rights, will be forced by their masses to act differently to the loud drum of their current nationalist frenzy.
@ 2008-05-09 09:22:27
Let's suppose that the government can't be more repressive, but the people like it, love it, be pleased with it as long as long they can gain economic benefits, what you are gonna do? what's the gnikcuf of your business? Chinese leaders made promise to the world that China will follow a path of peaceful development(rise), and never use nuclear weapons in the first place! Can any of other countries make such promise to the rest of the world? Most importantly, China is a developing country, and it is economically, culturally weak comparing to the West, even China wants to be a Classical Fascism, but there is no chance for it to be in that you have to be very powerful at least. Also note that the writter comes from American Enterprise Institute. "American Enterprise Institute"-huh, what all they sold is all about war, sanction, confrontation. It is a tragedy that human nature have such a conservative think tank.
_007 @ 2008-05-09 09:00:10
"Classical Fascism"? If it really is, I think Chinese government will just close the door to the rest world to disguise how repressive they are. But as a matter of fact, China is becoming increasingly open. On the other hand, let's suppose that the government can't be more repressive, but the people like it, love it, be pleased with it as long as long they can gain economic benefits, what you are gonna do? what's the gnikcuf of your business? Chinese leaders made promise to the world that China will follow a path of peaceful development(rise), and never use nuclear weapons in the first place! Can any of other countries make such promise to the rest of the world? Also note that the writter comes from American Enterprise Institute. "American Enterprise Institute"-huh, what all they sold is all about war, sanction, confrontation. It is a tragedy that human nature have such a conservative think tank.
David in China @ 2008-05-08 12:52:54
This article reads like the author has never been to China. First of all, he conviently forgot to mention an even stronger argument for why Japan would be more properly considered a mature fascist state than the economic argument - though there is something to this argument alone. There is a small contingent in Japanese politics which would, in a European context, be considered neo-Nazi, through their historical revisionism which justifies their WWII conduct. (China has historical revisionism which unfairly glamourizes their past as well of course, but the difference is that they don't have fascism in their past. So we're back to classical Communism here.) A second fact that the author conviently underplays is China's anti-Japanese sentiment at all levels of society, which will prevent China from developing along the path that Japan did. This is not like Russia's anti-Naziism, which didn't really restrain their behavior at all. How do I know this? The time I've spent here in China. The Chinese really are more concerned with not being Japan than with not taking advice from foreigners. If China ever did go down the path of Japan, a simple rhetorical device could put a brick wall in their path. It's hard to explain to someone who's never been to China how this would work, but I think few people with experience here would doubt it. What else? The Carrefour protests were actually repressed by the government. Chinese have fairly modest tastes in things like houses, no conspiracy theory there. And Japan manages to have some pretty unique political views without the need for information repression - it's just their anti-foreigner attidues that accomplish that. Many of these aspects of Chinese political culture which people tend to pick on are actually shared by the benevolent Japanese. It's hard to take anyone seriously who doesn't understand these aspects of Confucian culture, which has thousands of years of develpment mostly isolated from the west. (And though this particular article didn't go down this road, one shouldn't criticize Confucian culture for its shortcomings compared the West, because it also has some strengths. There are few religious wars in East Asian history.) In short, this is a propaganda article meant to reinforce Western stereotypes about China, and maybe a good place to go to get ammunition for your next political debate. But if you want to actually learn more about the way things work in China, if not going there yourself you might want to at least check out some other sources. ... I can't believe I just went to the effort to write all this.
Kelly @ 2008-05-08 03:51:04
Mr. Ledeen is a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, a NeoCon think tank whose members include Lynne Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz, the very group that engineered the disastrous Iraq invasion. Further, according to AEI, Mr. Ledeen's expertise lies in "Italy; Africa (Mozambique, South Africa, and Zimbabwe); Europe; Intelligence; Middle East; U.S. foreign policy; Iran; Leadership and the use of power; Terrorism; U.S.-China relations." Mr. Ledeen may be stretching himself a little too thin; one cannot be expert in everything. It takes years, even decades, to learn the Chinese language not to mention Chinese classics and history to provide proper framework for ones analysis on China. And yet Mr. Ledeen appears to cover the entire world. So I question whether he is the best person to write such an article and how much weight we should give to his theory.
Tian Li @ 2008-05-08 01:21:12
Anyone in China morally strong enough to say that Tibet should not be a part of China will be marched in front of a firing squad and executed. That, my freedom loving June 4th Tiananmen Sq. friends, is fascism - period! NEXT!
Tygr @ 2008-05-08 01:03:14
The Chinese people historically have overthrown more of its own governments than you can shake a stick at. Has anybody in the West and its media bothered to realise that maybe, just maybe the Chinese people on average ACTUALLY support the Chinese governments' policies on many issues. Frankly I rather have a domestically insecure authoritarian government that is increasingly sensitive to domestic public opinion than a democratically elected one that pretty much ignores or pays superficial lip service to public opinion once in office and then rolls out the party political marketing machine comes next presidential election circus. I rather have an authoritarian China that stays in China than a free and democratic America that goes rampaging around all the continents of the world like there is no tomorrow. What good is American domestic freedom of speech to the Iraqi men, women and children dying because of American "liberation"? Typically selfish narrow minded American worldview that is always on the lookout for number one and self-deluded into thinking that everybody shares their ethos and priorities and must therefore acquiesce to the US' bollocks manifest destiny.
Augo Knoke @ 2008-05-07 18:04:47
The need to stuff new phenomena into already known little conceptual boxes and thus reduce our fear of ambiguity seems to be at the bottom of Mr. Ledeen’s argument. Of course there are similarities in all authoritarian regimes, because, well, they are authoritarian. But that would qualify the Soviet Union as a fascist state, too – a large majority of the Russian citizenry was (and, alas, still is xenophobic), their somewhat insecure feeling about international status led to chairman Khrushtshev’s attempt at atomic blackmail against the US during the Cuban missile crisis, and so on. But Ledeen is trying to differentiate China from the USSR, and indeed the organisation of the economy is very different in China. But there are important differences between China today and Nazi Germany, too. I suspect that is also true for fascist Italy. The background to Nazism in Germany was the lost war (WWI) and the economic downturn in the depression. There can be little doubt that the backbone of the aggressive stance of the Nazi movement was the very real or feared dispossession of the lower middle classes – of which Hitler himself was the prime example. Relative prosperity was evaporating fast and cruelly. Hitler’s economy was expanding because of massive investments in an infrastructure geared towards and only sustainable in the expansionist war that finally came about. Now compare this to China, today. The economy is expanding because of the production of eminently sellable goods (ask American Unions about it). There are dangers when growth slows down, as it seems to start to do, and there is a lot of social upheaval going on in China, right now, already. There are quite a few people left behind in the countryside, and the temptation for the rulers might very well be to seek escape valves in an aggressive external policy. But then, all the winners, the expanding middle classes of today as well as the princelings would lose a lot in an aggressive external policy. At the core of the Deng policy was and is to attain wealth for as many people as quickly as possible in whatever way, the core of Nazism was to restore, if there ever was, national greatness. If Chinese development should stall, temptation might grow for a “fascist” solution. But it is very unwise to confound what might be with what is because you rob yourself of viable political alternatives in dealing with powerful authoritarian rulers.
hengyi.zhuang @ 2008-05-07 10:55:11
i want to show all of you this: feer's manager says:" my dear wokers, let's write sth bad about China" pupil A say:"but China is good" feer's manager answers:"come on~where is your creation?? and you know what? if we write such things, more people will come to read, that is money!!"
August @ 2008-05-06 10:00:34
True, most Chinese have zero tolerance for territorial secession, but most Americans do the same. The American Civil War was fought primarily not for emancipation but for preserving the union, and was remembered in that way even well into the middle of the twentieth century. The Emancipation theme was a later projection largely as a result of civil rights movement (please read Barry Schwartz's Lincoln book). So it's inappropriate to liken the Tibet issue with American occupation of Iraq. Can you imagine how horrible it would be for an ordinary Chinese to envision his country being broken apart and a lot of his fellow citizens, either Tibetans, or Muslins, or Hans, driven away from their home (these people have lived together with each other for centuries--do not tell me that Tibetan exiles will be lenient angels when they come to power because Buddhism is intrinsically peaceful)? The Chinese, just like any people living in a rapidly changing society and already having experienced a lot of social dislocation and dizziness, are extremely hungry for social stability. That's why they are so horrified by the riots. So yes, most Chinese are quite unanimous in terms of the sovereignty issue. But apart from that, there are a lot of public debates and discussions going on in China in terms of Tibet policies as well as other policies. However constrained Chinese media freedom is, remember the civil society there is every growing and vibrant. Such public debates and discussions you can read in many national newspapers and journals. People in the U.S. and the West simply do not know about all these things because Western journalists and academics are too lazy and arrogant to read them. They only want to see what they wish to see. Western journalists only read People's Daily and say, "this is too bad. let's go listen to the authentic Chinese voice." So they go to interview the Chinese "dissidents" who have already approached them and made friends with them, yet who are extremely marginalized and unpopular in China. These lazy journalists never listen to the middle stratum and never bother reading Chinese newspapers, etc. American scholars do not talk to Chinese intellectuals except those who would like to talk to them. That's why they always end up knowing nothing new and real. To be honest, the way that Americans learn to know things in China today bears striking similarity with the way the Chinese learned to know things in the U.S. four decades ago, when they just approached their communist friends in America and asked:"tell me what's going on in your country"! It is a strategic failure for the Americans just it was for the Chinese.
Josie Nguyen @ 2008-05-06 02:28:47
I'm not a fan of the current Chinese regime in China but I have to say I find Mr. Ledeen's characterization of China as a fascist state intellectually dishonest, war provoking and underneath it all is a manifestation of a deep sense of moral self-righteousness. If this piece of writing represents the view of a state, it can safely be characterized as a declaration of war on China and Mr. Ledeen will deserve to be recorded in the history book as the devil who started it all. If I were Chinese, it certainly would make my blood boil. Westerners just don't understand Asians and frankly Chinese are not unique in their reaction to Western media in regards to the Tibet issue. Try to find an issue and invite those well-paid Western journalists do the same thing to Vietnam, Japan, South/North Korea, India, Burma etc...or Russia for that matter and they soon will find out what nationalism means on the streets and among ordinary people.
@ 2008-05-04 15:59:55
i agree with him.
@ 2008-05-04 06:11:50
To the person who made the 1st comment: Yes you have a good point. But with a country that is ranked one of the lowest in media freedom I find something dangerous. American's are complacent...true...but we have political fights back and forth. It's not like either the anti-war or pro-war movements have been politically silenced. The U.S. allows both sides to express their points of view. As far as I know...there are no protests for pro-Tibetans in the mainland (maybe only Tibet). Where do Chinese people express their grievances? China also "liberated" Tibet. The U.S. "liberated" Iraq. Are powerful states really so different? Yes...American's were on both sides. Some wanted war some didnt. I don't know any movement in China strong enough to say that Tibet should not be a part of China. The PRC "liberated" Tibet with no political opposition. I do agree that maybe the author took it a little bit too far...I don't think that Hu Jintao is a Hitler or a Mussolini. However, you can't ignore the fact that the Chinese have been bringing out the rhetoric that all these disputed lands have always been a part of China. Xinjiang, Tibet, Taiwan, Spratley Islands....Why are the Chinese so quick to say "Is and always will be part of China." Wheres the dissent? There should be people out there who can express their grievances with the government. Modern western governments allows political dissent. China does not. When a country of 1.3 billion has no political dissent...something is wrong.
August @ 2008-05-04 01:13:47
I am curious why when it comes to the U.S., you call it patriotism whereas when it comes to China, you call it nationalism and even fascism? Of course, the Chinese want political freedom but doesn't that freedom we all agree on include the freedom from the interference from foreign powers? Why, did you rename French fries to freedom fries when the French try to "interfere" your invasion of Iraq? Tell me what did you mean by freedom fries? The freedom to invade other countries according to your wishful thinking of "liberating" them without asking them if they really want your "liberation"? Mr Ledeen definitely has no tolerance for people of other countries to have the freedom from American arrogant imposition and denial of their voices. Well, if all the people around the world have their political representation in Washington D.C., they might not mind losing such a freedom. Then, let America blow up! Otherwise, please do not denigrate people in other countries who have different views from yours as fascists. Nobody in this world lacks moral self-righteousness.
 
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